MyDD :: Manna From Heaven: The Iraqis Want Us To Leave

Manna From Heaven: The Iraqis Want Us To Leave

by Reaper0Bot0, Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:15:31 PM EST

Seldom has fate dealt us such a fortuitous hand. The single most important bit of news this year and it's not getting nearly as much play as it should. I can only hope that the right people notice it.

Per the AP:

Iraq's national security adviser said Tuesday his country will not accept any security deal with the United States unless it contains specific dates for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces.

The comments by Mouwaffak al-Rubaie were the strongest yet by an Iraqi official about the deal now under negotiation with U.S. officials. They came a day after Iraq's prime minister first said publicly that he expects the pending troop deal with the United States to have some type of timetable for withdrawal.

President Bush has said he opposes a timetable. The White House said Monday it did not believe Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki was proposing a rigid timeline for U.S. troop withdrawals.

It is looking more and more like the Iraqis won't agree to a security deal without a date certain. The White House seems to be balking. This is great news for a few reasons. More after the jump...

Per the State Department:

"The U.S. government and the government of Iraq are in agreement that we, the U.S. government, we want to withdraw, we will withdraw. However, that decision will be conditions-based," said U.S. State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos.

It hasn't really hardened yet, but the two sides appear to be digging in some. If this really does become an open confrontation then Senator McCain will be in a murderously tough position and Senator Obama will be in a fantastic spot. President Bush once said:

"We are there at the invitation of the Iraqi government. This is a sovereign nation. Twelve million people went to the polls to approve a constitution. It's their government's choice,'' the president said during a Rose Garden news conference. "If they were to say leave, we would leave."

If he backs off of that there will be hell to pay, both with the Iraqis and with us here at home. Senator Obama could very easily pounce on this by saying something to the effect of "I'm all for a graceful and careful phased withdrawal, but if the Iraqis want us gone by a certain feasible date, well, then that's that." If he goes there then Senator McCain has to either agree with him or flat out insist on a hostile occupation against the stated position of the sovereign state of Iraq.

The smartest thing that President Bush could possibly do is to declare victory because the Iraqi state is finally ready to stand on its own (which he would not believe) and spin it as best he could. I doubt he's that smart, especially in light of the fact that the big oil companies have thus far been unable to negotiate the contracts they want with the Iraqi government (the oil companies want oil revenue sharing while the Iraqis want to pay them a fixed amount for services rendered).

Oh, and it gets our boys and girls home faster. That's absolutely fantastic. This is a win-win from every angle I can see, so long as the Iraqis can hold it together once we're gone.

Crossposted from my new blog, Seldon's Gambit:
http://reaper0bot0.blogspot.com/2008/07/ mana-from-heaven-iraqis-want-us-to.html

Tags: Al-Maliki, Date Certain, Iraq (all tags)

Permalink :: 27 Comments :: Post a Comment

Tips? (2.00 / 2)

For an incredible stroke of luck?

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:15:59 PM EST

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

Hey now. After all the blood, sweat, money and tears we have put in?

I agree removing combat troops. But not for us being AWOL in Iraq.

He needs to pay us back for the freedom he has to voice such an opinion in Iraq.

No sir, you pay us back in oil or money and make sure we do not have to go back in there ever again.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 2)

The last thing we want is for the Iraqis to "pay us back". Do you want them to pay us back for creating a situation that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians - men, women, and children? Do you want them to pay us back for creating a situation that has led to the complete disruption of their society? Do you want them to pay us back for creating a situation that has led to a disastrous decline in the country's infrastructure?

Just what do you want them to "pay us back" for?

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:39:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

Look I understand that argument but we are building infrastructure there while they have hoarded up 70 billion dollars from oil production.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

IT'S THEIR DAMNED OIL.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:04:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

It's also their 'damned' country they keep asking us to build with our money. We are building new infrastructure and repairing those their own 'damn' people blew up.

Let's not forget Obama has ruled out combat troops only. The efforts to have an Embassy there is very much still on the books and will remain on the books. So will our building of that nation's infrastructure. I'm saying you guys pay us back for what we are putting in.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

I'm nearly speechless.

Did they ask us to invade them, topple their (oppressive) government, obliterate their infrastructure, sit idly by whilst the place got looted to hell and gone, fire the whole army without disarming it, and all in all wreck the joint?

Cuz if they did you'd have an intellectually honest and defensible position. This is a bit like expecting a woman to repay a man for her medical expenses after he beat and raped her, yet kindly picked up the doctor's tab.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

LOL I swear I'm going to give you an ulcer one these days. Dude, it my opinion that they should quit expecting our tax payers to continue building that country without repaying some of those efforts and do so by also by giving us some break in oil. They keep asking us to spend our money while now hoarding up a 70 billion dollar surplus.

Look democrats are asking for it too!

http://socialistworker.org/2008/05/12/pa ying-to-be-occupied

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

It's the equivalent of a guy that comes to your house and does your landscaping without you knowing, then demands that you pay up.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:29:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

Every family in Iraq that has lost a loved one would have a good claim for damages against the USA for negligence in failing to protect their family member. If every one of those hundreds of thousands of families sued then the US would be out far more than 70 billion dollars. Of course, that doesn't matter because money can't replace a life.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 06:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gee (none / 0)

It's my impression that they HAVE been paying us back... for five years and counting. I'd rather that they STOP paying us back, thank you. The currency that we're dealing in is decidedly not beneficial to either Americans or Iraqis.

Your attitude is strangely freeperish for a Democratic blog.

The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gee (2.00 / 1)

well you know I guess you can add democratic sentors to the freepeer list too. They are demanding the same.

http://socialistworker.org/2008/05/12/pa ying-to-be-occupied

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice try. (none / 0)

So... you're looking at a method that some Democrats concocted to get us out of Iraq by getting them to not want to pay us... in May no less, and suggesting that it's relevant to the Iraqis asking us to take a hike in July?

The only thing that I can think of that connects the two events is that the Iraqis might be afraid that they'd have to start paying, and that urged them to tell us to leave on a timetable. In which case it's a strategy that worked.

I doubt they're connected at all, however. The Iraqis don't really want us there, period. We don't want to be there. George Bush, Halliburton, and Blackwater want us to be there. Oh, and you.

The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gee (none / 0)

I never said it was a "freeper" thing, or a Republican thing.

I pretty obviously implied I thought it was stupid. If the Iraqis want to repay us, great. I hope they do.

But to demand it or expect it is hilarious. We initiated this for our own benefit, not theirs.

Whipping up a little infrastructure for 'em is the equivalent of buying 'em breakfast at this point. We already "bedded" them.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:43:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gee (2.00 / 1)

Maybe the Prez. of Iraq is a Democrat?

Things we could afford if we were not rebuilding Iraq

veteran's healtcare benefits

healthcare initiatives for the US

bike paths

increased mass transit into rural areas and refurbish existing mass transit

a solar power initiative

so we could afford to install a solar power system

rebuilding our water infrastructure
this comes from a FEMA employee. Water systems
in some of our large cities are old and in need of repair. The leaking wastes fresh water and if a drough occurs will precipitate a water crisis

rebuild levees

ask anyone along the Mississippi River and Sen. Obama their possition on that one

better federal funding for schools

ask any governor what they think of the under funded NoChild Left Behind educational plan. They were in the process of revolt.

add your own here.

Iraq is costing us a fortune with no return.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:15:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

You are entitled to your opinion, or course.

I'd prefer my friend who's serving in the Army currently in Iraq not die so you can feel like we've been properly compensated for visiting liberty and death to the Iraqi people

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

He needs to pay us back for the freedom he has to voice such an opinion in Iraq.

Pay us back for his freedom? What?? Let's see if I can do this from memory...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights: to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

No sir, you pay us back in oil or money and make sure we do not have to go back in there ever again.

I'm not exactly sure what the Iraqi people did to make it so we "had to go in" in the first place. Or do you subscribe to the Administration's position that this wasn't a war of choice?

Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics

by BishopRook on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

Yeah, this whole concept is pretty passive-aggressive, when you get down to it.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Iraq saying they want us out (2.00 / 1)

REALLY helps Obama make his case. As well as slaps McCains "no surrender" bullshit memo just that "bullshit".

by puma on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:25:03 PM EST

Re: Iraq saying they want us out (none / 0)

Maybe the Iraqi's are Democrats?

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:17:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not certain yet (none / 0)

This was third page in the Star-Tribune and front page in the USA Today, so maybe it will get more coverage.

Obama is in a terrific position on this, if Iraq sticks to its guns, because they're basically advocating a variation on his plan. Bush and McCain are in trouble, because they still have interests in keeping Iraq reliant on us for their security... not to mention the fact that, if we leave, the natural ally for the Shiite government of the country in the region is... wait for it... IRAN!

The only downside that I can see is if the Republicans somehow angle it so they can embrace it as a victory, thereby stealing one of Obama's big selling points, opposition to the war. Of course, take the war from being a factor and Obama still beats McCain, so...

The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:25:40 PM EST

Re: I'm not certain yet (2.00 / 2)

I don't know about a "victory," but I think it might give McCain an out, so to speak. He can be for staying, but he can also play up the "respect their sovereignty" angle, appealing to the middle by leaving open the possibility of getting out because we're asked to.

We CAN win this issue, but it isn't won, in my opinion.

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not certain yet (none / 0)

Tremendous upside. The timing on this couldn't be more perfect if it had been coordinated. Obama is just about to make a big trip to Iraq. He goes over there, talks to the leaders about withdrawal, the leaders come away with glowing statements about Obama's policy, which now completely matches up with Iraq's own goals.

It even grants him a little leeway, since if Iraq asks for 24 months instead of 16, he'd only be faulted for giving it to them by the most hard-headed of souls (including ALL conservative pundits, of course). The point is, there'd be a timetable. And Obama was the one that said it needed to be there.

It's brilliant, because although McCain pushed for a surge, he now appears behind the curve. They thought Iraq was supposed to be their ace in the hole. No longer.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not certain yet (none / 0)

And seriously, who DIDN'T see this coming? It was more than clear that Iraq didn't really want us there. Here's what's going to happen. They're going to push us out, and meanwhile, we'll see them team up with Iran. It's just gonna happen. Which could be a positive as well, because it would give a reason to talk to Iran without as many entanglements.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not certain yet (none / 0)

Dunno I was thinking they'd probably team up with the EU or Russia or maybe China.

Crazy? I dunno. They're busy making deals with oil companies to sell their oil. They were already dealing with I think the French before the invasion. Lots of oil there. I think they just want to become a rich country.

Wonder if the Kurds, Sunnis and Shias have come to some kind of national agreement of who gets the oil profits in Iraq?

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:24:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not certain yet (none / 0)

According to Wikipedia, they have not. Granted, it's Wikipedia, so the info could be outdated, but it says "as of June 2008", so that's pretty recent. We won't see this come to fruition while the US is still there, because the Shiite government will be accused of working to give the US a good deal. I just hope that it doesn't lead to civil war.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:22:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not certain yet (none / 0)

Iran is making deals with Russia and China as well. Just the THOUGHT of the world's two top oil-rich countries teaming up with each other, though... Yikes. It depends whether Iraq wants it enough to actually compete with Iran. That gives us our answer right there.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:24:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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